Growth Online

Musings on the World Scene


Interview

In this interview Roy Posner, president of Growth Online, discusses the deeper meaning of trends and events in the world, and these reflect on an underlying movement of inner unity and oneness.  Created 2001

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Welcome again to the Growth Online interview series.

Thank you.

Myself: So, any keen insights into what's happening in the world?

RP: (smiles) Well I do have some random thoughts.

Myself: Such as?

I think we need to start with the end of the Cold War because it is probably the most significant event in the last twenty years. Obviously the agreements between the US and the former Soviets has reduced tensions greatly in the world. This allows more of the world to live out its potential; unfettered and reigned in by the ideological conflicts of the past. 

I think the most significant thing in this regard is that this is yet another step in the movement toward human unity, which I believe is the greatest underlying force and movement in the world. The end of the Cold War, economic collaboration, cooperation, and integration, the emergence of the European Union, the interest in the world's environment highlighted by the Kyoto accord, and other global associations and agreements, are all further signs of a movement of the world toward greater world integration and unity.

At Growth Online we talk a lot about the development of the individual. How a person unconsciously or consciously, very slowly or very quickly, moves in the course of one's life towards a higher state of being and consciousness. This is normally referred to as  "personal growth," or even "personal evolution." 

Well the world is going through a similar process; a process that also takes place consciously or unconsciously, quickly or slowly, to higher states of growth, development, and evolution. 

I believe that the events I just mentioned are further indications of the world's growth, evolution, and even transformation. Furthermore, just as the destiny of the individual is to integrate the different aspects of one's own self, so the destiny of the world is the integration of the many aspects -- social, political, economic, cultural, and spiritual aspects -- of its being. That overall resulting movement is toward world integration and unity.

But what about all the turmoil in the world? The Middle East; Bosnia, Kosovo, and now Macedonia; the conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir; the energy and environmental crisis, and so forth. How do they square with such a movement toward human unity?

Well if you accept the fact that everything positive and negative serves a great purpose in the unfolding of life, you then recognize that in all events, no matter how terrible, there is a deeper purpose and meaning; a "higher unfolding" if you will in the event. 

I know this sounds horrible but we might not have had the United Nations, NATO, and the recent movement toward economic and environmental integration if we didn't have World War II.

Take the recent problems in the former Yugoslavia. On the surface we see civil strife; the emergence of the will of an emerging minority in a country. There is the beginnings of a potential war and yet more suffering in that troubled area. Though we have seen the US take the lead in the situations around the former Yugoslavia in the recent past in Bosnia and Kosovo, Europe itself seemed impotent to take the initiative in those events in the past. This is after all in their own backyard, or at least on the borders of what we know as the NATO alliance region.

So from this we can understand that at one level there is an evolutionary, underlying compulsion, urge, and pressure for Europe to take regional action, not depending on and deferring to the US to take the initiative as it has in the past two conflicts in Yugoslavia. As we know after the Kosovo conflict the Europeans agonized over this very issue. So now Europe as an entity, a European entity, needs a better way to assert itself or at least to be more strategically involved in such issues so close to their perimeters. So there is an evolutionary push on Europe. And it comes through the negativity of conflict.

Likewise at a broader level there is a related push on the entire world community in terms of dealing with such conflicts. That is, if wars like this crop up, especially where there are cross regional problems, will regional reactions to the situation be enough to solve the problem? Some issues cross regions, or are just outside regions; that is they defy the response of the regional approach. So the question is if a great crisis arises in one of the regions or nearby does the world have the ability to react? We of course have a United Nations that can play a role, though the UN seems to play more of a peace-keeping function at this point. But where does a collaborative, world-based rapid response emanate from? We are clearly seeing the need for a global response, not a regional, or self-interested response of isolated nations or organizations, even organization like NATO. 

For example, it has been suggested that a rapid deployment world army would serve greatly in this type of situation. But does the world have the will to create such an organization? Well that's where negative situations come into play and serve their purpose. There is great conflict, the current response is inadequate, there is much hand-wringing, and at some point there is the mental realization that something better has to be done in the future, such as a rapid deployment world army. There is the potential to agree and implement something to deal with the problem. If there is no agreement, the problem repeats, such as we could be witnessing in Macedonia or elsewhere, and the underlying problem is further magnified. At some point a change must occur. Life's negatives create the urge and pressure for change. So in this way the world evolves.

Sri Aurobindo, the Indian sage and visionary wrote about the inevitable movement toward world unity and harmony in his voluminous writings including The Human Cycle and The Ideal of Human Unity. In fact many of our own conclusions have their roots in insights and trends that he envisioned so many years ago, and which are interestingly more relevant than ever today. For example, over seventy years ago he envisioned a united Europe, and then later a united world. 

In his writings he discussed how the world movements express themselves positively; but often negatively. However, at a higher point of consciousness we see that what we perceive as positive and the negative serve the ultimate unfolding or purpose of the evolution and transformation of the world.

[Editor: We can clearly see this in light of the current terrorist crisis. How negative can lead to positive results. The conflict could eventually lead to peace in Palestine, a movement to bring the entire world into the global economy lest anguish and terror is unleashed from those left behind, the fanaticism of any religious fundamentalism, the need for a global response to the worlds problems, and so forth.]



That negative expression that brings positive change is a pretty harsh truth.

Yes it is on one level; but if we understand such processes, we can begin to see where things are going and why. We can learn to understand the undercurrents and forces at work in the world, so that we can make better decisions in the present, which will help is the future; thus avoiding the negative. 

These processes can be observed at the global level in terms of confrontations and difficulties. We can also observe it in terms of the sub-divisions of life -- in the political, economic, social, cultural, and spiritual currents at work in the world; and at the level of the individual nation. Each entity can be examined in terms of a process of growth and evolution. That will help us pinpoint the positives and the negatives, which in turn will help us understand and implement strategies that will eliminate the negatives and accentuate the positives in the growth, development, and evolution of that entity. 

I guess you can look at these life movements from two levels. At one level we can see the world evolving through positive and negative forces. It just happens on its own. We call this the force of Nature, with a capital N.  On the other hand there is our ability, through our willed consciousness, our comprehending mind to recognize these forces, processes, and events so that we can make better choices that will accelerate the positive developments. This is conscious development, where we take the reigns of life, rather than being driven by Nature.

We evolve both ways. It's just that we want to evolve with less bloodshed, conflict, anguish, strain; and in the least amount of time, and with the greatest effectivity. I believe that's the way of consciousness or conscious development. I believe that's the emerging approach of the 21st century and beyond. Nature has had its way for too long!

If each individual, each business, each social entity recognizes what it is, positive and negatives, and is willing to make the evolutionary change to improve itself by shedding its negative qualities and accentuating its positive ones, that entity becomes more conscious. It thusly creates the condition for rapid positive development for itself in the world. Just as a human can grow and develop by being more conscious so can any social entity on the planet - be it a nation, an alliance of nations, or a sub-unit, such as the economy.

That sounds pretty idealistic.

Yes, and practical I believe.

To return to the positive and negative in the world for a moment. Sri Aurobindo says that the universe was created in division and duality. From a divine source, an Omnipresent Reality came the universe and the cosmos we live in, as divided, ignorant forms. As the universe evolves and we as humans come into existence that initial state of duality and division manifest in may ways -- as darkness and light, knowledge and ignorance, joy and suffering, pleasure and pain, and so forth. You can say that this is the "involution" of existence. We call it involution because the Divine spirit is hidden or involved in forms in the cosmos; the release from the divisions and dualities is hidden, involved in the forms, of the universe, including us. This is what we would call the metaphysical foundation behind the movements of the world we live.

Let's continue with our metaphysics for a bit. So after the involution, the evolution begins. That really starts with the appearance of the universe, cosmos at the point of the Big Bang, or some such event in which the universe was born. From that point onward begins the long arduous movement of evolution out of the darkness and ignorance by working our way overcoming the divisions and dualities of existence. 

As we make our way through the divisions and dualities of life, as we touch the spirit within ourselves, we begin to see the world from a different perspective. For one, we inevitably can comprehend and then create greater higher harmonies and unities in life. Darkness gives way to light. Ignorances to knowledge. Pain to joy. For example, in terms of social progress class hatreds end, nations unify, poverty declines, wealth increases, cooperation increases, people become more tolerant, and so forth.

This can take place at the level of the individual and his environs, as well as for social entities like companies, communities, and nations. As we rise in consciousness we are able to see the divisions and dualities of life withdraw, and we are able to see out inter-connectedness, our oneness, and we are more easily able to solve the problems of the world. In that way we fulfill the evolutionary destiny of the cosmos, the universe, humanity, and our individual selves.

So you are saying that all that is happening, for good or bad, for better or worse, is serving this higher purpose; this movement to a better, more conscious world?

Yes I think so.

Hmmm. So this evolution has been taking place throughout human history? Is there some pattern that we can see along the way?

Well I must say I'm not the greatest expert here, but I do think there are threads that can be followed, indications or movements that follow some sort of pattern. Still I think those patterns are related to the way the cosmos first emerged out of the Absolute in duality, and all the ways in which we are emerging out of that through our evolution.

(pause) For example, we have identified four stages of human development in human society -- the physical stage, the vital stage, the mental stage, and perhaps even a spiritual stage. 

The physical stage is the most primitive, perhaps beginning around 10000 years ago. Human were focused on survival. Individuals were kind of subservient to the collective will for survival. Then perhaps 500 years or so ago a later vital stage emerges. Agriculture flourishes, cities arise, people begin to discover the world, trade with other peoples begins. There is a movement towards energetic relations with others in nearby and distant lands. At a later stage, the mental stage, backed by the power of the human mind, emerges. Organization in the world increases. Associations, schools, colleges, business institutions, global communications arise. This is the age in which we have now clearly entered, but only at the most elementary levels. At higher levels of this mental stage of social development the higher powers of mind are released in society, such as the powers of mind to plan, to order, to conceive and create the world in our own vision. 

By the way as the power of Mind develops organization in the world becomes much richer and complex. The Internet is a perfect example of this trend, with its ability to reference, organize, and integrate disparate systems; and its ability to overcome the normal limitations of space and time. So ever more complex organization is a reflection of the deeper capacities of the power of mind emerging in the world.

Finally, beyond the mental stage is the spiritual stage. That is further off, but coming soon nevertheless.

So we can see another process or movement there in the history of human development; from physical to vital to mental to perhaps spiritual. 

We can also see other related processes. For example take again the movement toward world unity. Well this doesn't suddenly happen. It's a process that goes through various stages as well. 

Let me narrow this down to the issue of two nations working together. At the first stage the two nations are oblivious to one another. At another stage they are aware of one another, and may work together in peace or work at odds in conflict or war. Over time say they get to the point of having cordial relations; they have gone beyond political conflict but not much more. Now they are embarking on economic interactions. At the first tense meeting of the leaders they may agree to a few economic treaties. We can say that at this point there is a bit of cooperation. At a later stage, say when there is more trust or a great benefit has been gained, the economic cooperation turns into economic collaboration. This is a higher level. We are not simply going to get along, and create economic links to prove it, but now we have deeper mutual economic interests. At a higher stage there is economic integration. At this point each country has in a way lost the ego sense, and is now seeking the advancement not only of itself but of the other nation to some degree.

So this movement from a kind of tolerant cooperation, to a deeper collaboration, is a movement of unity between nations; in this case of economic unity. The same applies to political unity, cultural unity, and even a spiritual unity.

In a way you can say it's a movement from self to other; from Ego to Whole. From the self and ego of the nation itself to the whole of the integration with neighbor and to the world at large. I think each country goes through this in relation to every other country. 

This also implies that in it own development within itself it moves towards higher levels of integration. So the nation itself just like the individual becomes more integrated. This then creates the personality and character of the nation, which then integrates with other nations on the world stage. If we can evaluate nations and the integration of nations this way it will greatly help us develop more positive strategies that will lead to greater integration and unity. 

So these are all examples of various world movements that are related to this bigger movement toward world or human unity.

Then we can even device some strategies for the world based on such trends. For example, one such strategy relates to conflict. We have seen that if there is a conflict at one level we can device a strategy to utilize some aspect of a higher level to resolve the problem that exists at the lower level. 

For example if two countries are having political conflicts, we can devise strategies to go to the next higher level, the economic level, that will ease the tension at the political level. An example of this is the current conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. Rather than fight a war, in the fields, and a war of words over the issue, the two countries could devise economic ties of some sort that can help develop more trust and dependence, which can ease the political conflict, leading to more possibilities for agreement at the political level. the same is true in the Middle East, and elsewhere. 

Thus we can kind of see a continuum from the political to the economic to the cultural to the spiritual. If there is a problem at one level one can often rise to a small aspect of the next highest level, implement it, which can release the tension, conflict, or problem at the lower level. There are many examples of how such strategies could be devised for improving situations in many sore spots or emerging situations the world.

This mirrors a strategy for the individual human being, who for example, learns to control the negative aspects of his vital, emotional nature by moving to a greater mental influence that can dispassionately process information to make a better decision. 

Let's change direction for a moment, and talk about some specifics that have happened or are occurring. For example, let's talk about what happened to the former Soviet Union.

Well that all begins and ends with one man, Michael Gorbachev. His policies of glasnosts and perestroika set the stage for arguably the most important even in the second half of the twentieth century. He single handedly changed the course of history. Even today we do not understand the enormity of what he did. I believe that if we truly understood what occurred that Gorbachev would have deserved half a dozen consecutive Nobel peace prizes. Has any man in the history of the world had such an impact? When the world was facing the real possibility of nuclear annihilation, its total destruction, one man stepped up and released the pressure as we approached what was called the 12th hour. And yet there is still the gratitude for what he did. In his own nation he was ousted; in other nations he has been somewhat forgotten. 

Then there is how it was done. This was most remarkable aspect of what happened to the former Soviet Union of all. Normally such radical changes for the good take place through revolution, where forces on the outside compel the government inside to change. Well this was very different. here it was the forces in power, through their own self-will, that is Gorbachev guidance changed itself. A revolution took place from within. This is unprecedented in the history of the world. 

It is like a person who suddenly becomes aware of his deficiencies, and makes the effort to improve himself. We have seen this of course many times, but not a government. Governments don't normally revolutionize themselves in this sort of way

In fact we could say that it was a revolution in the concept of revolution. This new idea that an institution becomes conscious of itself and its own weakness, and destroys the old order from within that system.

I personally believe this was an evolution of society and in the world's consciousness for such a thing to take place. Some have even linked it to a Divine grace that descended. I would not disagree.

The bottom line is that no one understands what happened to the USSR! No one outside the country; no one inside.

Then there was what happened to Russia afterwards.

After the Soviet Union collapsed great mistakes were made. Strong business interests in the US and Europe, in collaboration with decisions of their government leaders rushed head long into the dismantling of the former Soviet system in order to bring in capitalism. This was a huge mistake, and has set back Russian progress enormously. Gorbachev warned that this "shock therapy" would be a great weight on Russia for years to come. Instead of more gradually utilizing some of the existing Soviet infrastructure in the process of redevelopment, the old system was nuked, causing a massive collapse; leaving virtually no foundation for the new system. You can blame this on reactionary forces in Europe, the US, and Russia itself.  

We can also look at it from another perspective. Russia was throughout its history a feudal state, a nation populated by very emotional people and society. In a way what has taken place -- the mafia, tendencies toward dictatorship and police state has been more suitable to such a temperament. If you study how in history feudal nations moved to democracy o how emotional people changed into rationality, we will see that why Russia has had such problems after the end of Soviet power. She tried to leap over the gaps we just mentioned in transitioning, and it could not happen. The feudal and emotional quality asserted itself. 

The energies suppressed burst out. Also, the absence of organization, due to the shock therapy that led to the complete dismantling of the system rather than a more orderly transition created chaos, let loose forces from the unorganized parts of society, including the mafia.

Sooner or later Russia will surely find her feet. Then from hindsight we will be able to more clearly see what went wrong since the Soviet system collapsed. In any case the collaboration potential between the US and Russia, and Russia and the world is infinite. Russia has given us many insights into social improvement. The irony is that Russia's socialistic ideas failed in Russia because of a police state that was created, yet many of its initial values may very well adopted by democracies based on capitalism. if you study Scandinavian countries closely, you will see that many social values held by the Russians have been adapted in subtle and not so subtle ways. Ironically, those values might be Russia's great legacy!

Looking at it the other way you say that the hard liners in the US, e.g. Reagan, and in Europe helped the process of the end of the Soviet Union along? You know "tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev."

Possibly, but that's now how I see it. I would say that Gorbachev did what he did despite a Reagan, not because of him. And then after the fall the same influences destroyed what should have been a more transitional bridge to a free market in Russia. 

Are there other leaders like Gorbachev that we have failed to appreciate and see in the right light?

There are certainly others. For example, though we have heard so much about human rights abuses, the abuse of Tibet, and so forth in China, all very very true, still we have not appreciated the unbelievable change that premier Deng brought about in the 70s and 80s. He opened up China to the business model followed by most of the rest of the world. One is even inclined to call him the Gorbachev of China. How he utterly changed the direction of the country from the Communist extremism into the modern world. Has there ever been such a leap in one country? Not the Great Leap backwards of Mao, but the Great leap forwards of Deng. And yet all we talk about here in the West is Tiennaman square. As Jimmy Carter and other have pointed out, had this been twenty years earlier there would have been a civil war where tens of millions would have died in China, instead of the scores in Tienneman square. 

It is hard for us to see the great changes even as we have just passed them. 

Then what brings these great leaders to the fore?

Well its obvious that there are big social changes in the works in each society. Each leader that comes into power is propelled by an underlying social force. A leader cannot emerge simply by his own will, but as a result of a great social will. Gorbachev, Deng, Reagan, Clinton are all propelled into the fray by underlying, emerging (emerging is the key) forces in the society. 

The main qualifications of the leader is that he or she reflects one of these emerging forces, and also has a foundation of leadership skills. The main qualification for leadership is strength, and the authority that issues out of strength. There are some exceptions to this, but these are the general requirements for the merging leader. 

How about the recession we are now apparently having after a great run of prosperity? Any comments on this?

You know everything comes down to our choice. What I mean is that we have free choice to create any outcome. Life is a stage of infinite possibility, and we can choose what is possible.

Furthermore, what we choose to believe becomes our reality. For example, we believe in the US that we can't grow more than 5% or so a year. Beyond that we feel there economy will overheat, or there will be a recession, inflation, etc. So this limitation is what we choose to believe, and that over the years becomes our threshold. Anything beyond it is considered dangerous. What we are saying is that if we choose to believe otherwise, we can create another reality.

If we examine the recession, we will see we have chosen to believe in something limiting; in the false belief in the inevitability of altering periods of  prosperity and recession.

(pause) Then there are some other, related, deeper perspectives. let's go back to the prosperity that preceded the recession. One of our ideas at the social development section of Growth Online is that through social, political, and economic events that we see occurring in the world, there is a deeper compulsion or yearning that is underneath. We can call that a social yearning. A yearning in the society. What's most interesting is the fact that the yearning is mostly subconscious, that is we are not conscious of that yearning, that internal desire of the society that is causing events to happen on the surface.

In that light we can perhaps say that in their natural optimism, enthusiasm and expansiveness the US unconsciously identified with the expansive forces of a new millennium and therefore was most receptive to its energizing force, thus economic expansion for 8 years. Then the opposite reactionary element there in all humanity reemerged with the elections and shut off the tap? That is the recession

(pause) We can also perhaps look at it at a deeper level still. Perhaps we can call it the spiritual level. I'd like to introduce another factor in the equation. Metaphysically or philosophically we can call it "grace." During Clinton's time we had great prosperity. You can say it was he that caused it, the baby boomers that caused it, the efficiency of computers and the Internet caused it, the emerging world economy caused it. While all of these have their place, in our view in the end we view the great period of expansion as a kind of grace for the world. 

I mean in one sense that it wasn't really what we did that created the boom. It was "given to us" that created it. We saw rising unemployment untended to in Europe as jobs increased throughout the world. In one sense this makes no sense. In the US there was nothing special we did, such as working extra hard, or introducing new deep cultural values, that could have triggered such a wave. Perhaps we could say that it was the release of a previously repressed energy following the Cold War that lead to the boom. It certainly was boom unlike anything before it. So whatever you call it is a descent of something different that enabled such a boom, which we can call "grace." 

Now however (in 2001) humanity is consciously resisting this grace, destroying what Clinton and others built up. Why do we do this? This reason for this can be explained simply: In every period that society advances, we see the retrograde forces subsiding for a while, and reasserting themselves later. It seems clear that the retrograde forces have reasserted themselves again. These retrograde forces exist in specific individuals, specific beliefs, are prevalent in certain parts of society. They even exist in parts of every human being. 

There is something in our collective nature that resists the positive, that resorts to our old ways. For example, in the US we are going back to old Cold War economic thinking. The old resistances return.

So we see at different levels of forces and counterforce at work. Some even emerge from the subconscious will of humanity; some are beyond at the level of the spiritual.

Still the good news is that at any point we have a choice. We have the choice as a nation, as a society to choose prosperity again, even prosperity forever. If we collectively choose prosperity it will emerge. If we choose the past, the given, the acceptance of such ideas that the cycles of boom and bust are inevitable, or that growth is limited to a maximum of 5% a year, or that keeping inflation in check must be the leading guide in enveloping economic policy, or that even inflation itself is inevitable, and other bugaboos, we'll get just that. We have a choice to work together, to collaborate, to rise above the old, not letting us fall back to the retrograde once again. We need to work together to make that choice and develop and implement plans to execute. 

Sri Aurobindo, the Indian seer said that all problems are problems of harmony. For example, when there is a vast reservoir of food in one part of the world and not in the other, then the problem is not of abundance, but of working out greater balance and harmonies between nations. If you examine any work, any field of endeavor, one can see that problems can be resolved by bringing about greater coordination, cooperation, and collaboration; by bringing differing values and attitudes into the same line among the participants. This then is Aurobindo's solution to the problems of the world, to any problem -- greater harmony. The ultimate harmonies are spiritual in nature. We call that Oneness.

(pause) If we collectively choose prosperity, it will come. If the parts work together to create a common purpose, there is nothing, economic or otherwise, that we cannot achieve. 

The desire to coordinate, cooperate, and collaborate all come from that choice to do so. Many of us have seen in our lives that when we are confronted with a problem, and make the choice to find a solution and implement it, rather than sitting back, good things happen. That is perhaps the central theme of Growth Online. We call that idea of attracting positive responses from life, "life response." Well it works the same way for society. If humanity make the choice to solve the economic problems together, collectively; that is we solve the problem through a greater harmonies, we create the possibilities of life responding in kind. In great abundance.

We can wait for another round, or we can choose now in our minds that we want sustained prosperity; and find ways to solve it collaboratively. We can work together in harmony, to collaborate, so that we can attract good fortune in life. Just like it is an individual's choice to move ahead in the world, that one can make one's own reality, it is our, society's choice to work together in a positive fashion collectively; and with progressive policy and determined implementation and action that will attract the positive results. There is no reason that there can't be continuous and endless boom, prosperity, benefit, and joy for the world. To quote the Bhagavad-Gita, "we become what we believe we can become."

(pause) You know we can also look at this in terms of the social stages of human development that I alluded to earlier. We have said that society has emerged over time from the physical to the vital to the mental stage of development. We outline this in our article on the four stages of human development.

Well we said that in our time the power of mind has really begun to emerge. We are developing the tools to accomplish anything in the world -- from the Internet to advanced education systems to breakthroughs in human health. This is a direct result of the emerging powers of mind in human life. 

Well the power of mind also has the ability to choose from a set of choices, or conceptualize new choices where none seem to be there. This is a functioning of our higher mental capacities. 

So we can work together to solve these problems. This can be the first time in human history that the world collaborates to create endless prosperity. The instruments and tools are infinite, if we use a little imagination, and don't settle for the accepted ways and techniques, the accepted theories, such as the inevitable cycles of boom and bust, "there's nothing you can do, etc. This type of thinking reflects the older, more primitive if you will physical aspect of humanity; that doesn't want to change, that wants to repeat and do the same things over and over; that doesn't want to accept or try anything new or isn't open to new possibilities that emerge. 

That tendency in society is just a mirror image of that same tendency in the individual human person. Just like the human physical body wants to repeat the same thing over and over (we have all experienced the fact that there is a tendency never to want to change or change our views), so the society wants to repeat the same old things, accept the same tired ideas and formulas. 

Thus we see that the old "physical consciousness" of society holds sway over our actions even today as the power of mind and spirit emerges. When we move out of the stubborn physical consciousness, when we let the mental part come to the fore, then change emerges, possibilities emerge. So the choice to exercise our mental choice and will is there waiting for us.

We ended the Cold War through choice born out of necessity. We can do the same to overcome the cycles of boom and bust; and further still we can collaborate to end ignorance, lack of education, suffering, AIDS, poor distribution of resources and income, environmental degradation, and so on and so forth for all problems in the world. It is our choice to collaborate in making a better world. It is our choice to not fall back into the old physical consciousness, and old ways. It is our choice to understand that our choices are endless, and exists at all points of action; that opportunities for solution lie everywhere.

(pause) Is there anything we can do in this area? I mean as individuals? Or are we just watching events unfold, a kind of spectacle on our TV screens. What can the average person do? 

Well of course we as individuals in society participate in many decisions. So we can be part of that choice, whether we are shaping policies, or just voting our conscience.

(pause) But since you asked I'd like to suggest that human can have an impact on events by an individual's own thoughts and feelings. I mean one man or woman can have feelings and thoughts that can move events in the world. Now this may sound fantastic, but we have seen this phenomenon at work a number of times, and so for us it is real. For example, we know one man who consciously decided and prayed for the end of the California energy crisis, when it was at its greatest, and saw within a few days the whole thing evaporate. He opened himself to the Force, and asked for the positive development deeply, and he got a result. Now one can be skeptical and say that it would have happened anyway. But we have seen too close a connection between the aspiration and the result to make it that simple.

So any person if he is heartfelt involved in an issue, or very interested in an issue, open him or her self to the spiritual Force we speak of at Growth Online, and offer the possibility of change of an issue, including a social issue or event to the Higher power for solution. If one knows how to do it correctly, great results can occur quickly. This is one of the frontiers of human consciousness. Perhaps one of our readers would like to try it out in a small way as it relates to a small issue on their part. 

(pause) Along the same lines we can devise another approach for those who are not so spiritually inclined. Any person can changing current events and circumstance around him by changing a corresponding element in himself. For example, if around one's self one sees a conflict involving lack of organization or harmony say in a company one works for, or a community organization one is involved in, one can make the inner effort in one's self to create a greater degree of organization or harmony in one's self. Thereafter that person would see the outer situation change in kind. We have witnessed this phenomenon many times. Or take the current World Trade Center attack crisis, where there is conflict, anger, hate, and so forth. If any person of the Jewish or Muslim faith transforms a corresponding element in one's self, one will see world circumstances respond in kind. If a Jew or Muslim comes forward and changes himself into an inner center of peace will see this come about. 

(pause) The there is something else, perhaps we could call it a little more practical than moving events in the world(!), that we can do in our own lives to bring about positive results for our own careers, our own work, our own accomplishment. 

It's this. We can simply refuse the old policies in our own daily lives. Let's take recession. At each point in one's work where one is working on a principle, policy, attitude, strategy, and so forth, instead of making a choice based on the fact that there is a recession going on, one can make a choice that blocks this fear of recession. If there is a fear in one's attitude toward recession, one should stop it. If one is setting goals or policies or principles, one should try to refrain from thinking in terms of recession. Life will respond very positively in kind to you by taking such a perspective. Instead of acting out of fear of recession, instead of shrinking, one should act with strength. Life respond to you positively in a big way. We have found this to be very true; as it relates to recession, or to any other area where there is a social shrinking, limitation, or other consensus, old fashioned belief.

Our choice is really ultimately our ability to release ourselves from our conventional view of the world, of reality, and tap into the infinite possibility and joy that lurks hidden in life. It is times like these that enables us to open our minds, our consciousnesses to the infinite possibilities of life, instead of accepting the dead, given laws of the past. 

That is a pretty novel idea! Any other observations you can think of?

Yes a few others. I think the world is rapidly evolving. I believe that we have developed more as a race in the last fifty years than we have in he last 500 years. And I don't mean just economically, but in all phases of life, including our knowledge, consciousness, and even as it relates to our spiritual understandings. And this is only accelerating. Perhaps in the next 10 years we will develop as much as we have in the last 50. 

Just to take a few random examples, aside from the obvious economic, political, technological, and scientific developments. Take religion. It is a common misconception to believe that because we see a growing rise of religious fundamentalism that religious intolerance is increasing. In fact overall there is a dramatic increase in tolerance among the major religions of the world, and for those who have a faith outside the traditional institutions. In the not very distant past (i.e. most of the 20th century) there was an underlying distain by most individual religions for other religion; as being heathens or ignorant. Now there is a growing understanding that other religions, faiths, and spiritual perceptions are more valid; valid to the point where many religious and spiritual teachings are subconsciously using the teachings of other religions and teachings in heir own doctrines! And they are not even aware of it!

In addition we see religion and spirituality focusing more on the individual's experience and beliefs than the doctrine, power, and influence of the religious institutions. This is in line with the fact that in the emerging mental stage of civilization that we are currently in, it is the fulfillment of the individual that is the emerging force. It is becoming clearer and clearer that institutions are there for the individual's growth and development, where as before it was more in the other direction. At a further stage the institutions themselves may evolve into something quite different than what they are today.

The Internet itself, the dominant technological development along with the computer in the past twenty years serves this ever-accelerating ascension of the needs and aspirations of the individual. Just look around you and you can see how the Internet has put great power in the hands of the individual; giving great scope and possibility for an individual any place on earth to rise in life.

Yet even these developments are small compared with the infinite potential in life that awaits every individual. As we slowly approach the spiritual stage of human development, which is approaching on the far horizons, we will begin to perceive powers within ourselves and around us that can be utilized to take us as individuals and society to infinite heights. There are in fact individuals who have begun to cross over these thresholds, and are discovering that they can literally change the world from within themselves. But that is a story for another day!

Any comments on the current crisis as a result of the World Trade center attack?

Well this is a microcosm of much of what I have spoken of earlier. 

For one, despite the heart breaking deaths and our reactions to it, we can see a lot of good that can come out of the crisis. So there is the notion that contradictions are complementaries again. Out of the misery comes the possibility of the end of the Israel-Palestinian conflict. There can also be an awareness that the world cannot prosper and boom when so many are left behind. We need to address the issues of despair, poverty, and anguish in the Middle Eastern and African countries, so that there is no fertile soil from which anguish and terror can arise. We could also see an end to religious fundamentalism, from any religion. We could see a resolution to such problems as the Taliban in Afghanistan, even the Kashmir issue between India and Pakistan, and many others. Out of the conflict comes great possibility. This is the way life functions at this stage of our development. Hopefully in the future, as individuals, social institutions, nations, and the world, rises in is consciousness, then the polarities between things, that is, the intensity between what is perceived as good and bad will decrease, leading to solutions to problems from deeper awareness, from a sense of unity of purpose, and ultimately, spiritual Oneness. 

(pause) One other thing. You know that the writer and spiritual teacher Deepak Chopra right after the World Trade Center attack placed an ad in the New York Times asking us to examine the causes and root of the incident. We would surely agree that to get at the root of any situation brings out the causes of the results we experience. Surely that would be a wise thing to do in the current situation. 

One principle that will explain a lot of things in the crisis is a two part principle that we subscribe to. the first part is that the low cannot rise without the high rising further. For example, in our world economic environment the prosperity of the poor countries and poor classes cannot rise unless there is a further rising of the higher classes. The other half of this principle is even more relevant to the current crisis. It says that the high cannot rise further without the low rising a great deal. In the world economic context we are looking at now we would say that the prosperous parts of the world cannot rise to the next levels of its own prosperity unless those on the lower end rise a great deal. I believe this is in essence the cause and root of the current situation. It's simply a law or principle of life that we have observed. So its in our own best interests, at least for those here in America, the West, and among the prosperous of the world,, that if they want to further prosper further, if they want to become even wealthier, there must be a concerted interest and effort to bring the lower end of the world along, otherwise we will never move up. If they don't do this then any of their efforts to go further will result in failure or as we have seen recently in horror and tragedy. 

It is more than the fact that we are our brothers keeper. Even if we look at it from our own interests, our own prosperity, we will see that it cannot succeed unless we bring in the rest of the world, those disenfranchised, those without hope. It's a strange idea! I can only become wealthier when others are part have attained a certain level of relative prosperity. It surely shows that beneath the surface of things, in the realm of the hidden subtle forces that exist in the universe, there is a unity of connectedness and purpose among all things.

(pause) Ultimately there is the Oneness of the world that is trying to emerge. A Oneness of heart among the people of the earth; and understanding that we each have a spark of the Divine within ourselves, and that another's spark is as relevant to ourselves as our own spark. World Unity and Oneness is our destiny, and the current difficulty is an important marker and milestone along the way.

Thank you, Roy

As always, a great pleasure.

 

 

MAIN POINTS

  • The world like the individual is undergoing its own evolution. 

  • The end of the Cold War is a big step in that process.

  • The end of the Cold War took place by an unprecedented revolution from within in the Soviet Union, led by Gorbachev. This is unprecedented in the history of the world. It is a revolution in the idea of Revolution.

  • Just as an individual can change from within him or her self, so can an institution, such as a nation, and so can the world.

  • The world is moving towards human unity. The European Union is a recent example, as was the UN in earlier times. 

  • (This movement toward world unity can be indicated by our responses to situations. E.g. A global response to terrorist attack, rather than just from the US, the victim, would be such an indicator of movement toward unity. the same with the development of a rapid response world army to similar or other types of conflicts.)

  • World unity proceeds from political to economic to social to cultural to spiritual. We are but merely in the economic unity stage (i.e. World Trade and world financial markets)

  • One can consciously solve the problems of one level by going to the next level. E.g. solve political problems of conflict between India and Pakistan, or Israel and Palestine through economic cooperation and development. (Unconsciously problems solve themselves through great struggle, slowly, in a long time frame.)

  • Sri Aurobindo said that in humanity's ascent, the movement toward world unity was surely a measure of that evolution.

  • All problems in life are problems of Harmony, says Sri Aurobindo. E.g. California energy crisis is one of distribution within the state and among the states, and more comprehensive and collaborative intrastate and national policies; food shortage in world is due to food abundance in one place and shortage in another. When greater harmonies are created between social entities problems are solved and disappear.

  • Life normally evolves through conflict. Things we perceive as conflict are the means of social evolution. Things we perceive as "bad" are necessary in the scheme of things, as are the "good." The "good" and the "bad" are necessary to each other for the greater development and emergence of all. E.g. WWII led to UN. Problems in Bosnia focuses European role in future of confrontations in region. And so forth.

    (The conflict that is occurring out of the World Trade Center attack could eventually lead to the end of the Israel-Palestinian crisis, the reduction of tensions in Kashmir, the movement of Middle East countries from out of one dimensional oil to multi-dimensional economies; a resulting reduction in fundamentalism and fanaticisms; the maturity of US in relationship to the world, instead of being aloof, superior, superficial, and materialistic; a greater awareness of the interconnectedness of problems among the nations of the world and a desire to remedy them (including plight of Middle East and N. African states, AIDS), and so forth.

    Thus at one level we can say that all aspects of a situation work together to move it forward, and thus are all needed. (Contradictions are complementaries says Sri Aurobindo). For example in Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice a scandal of a young woman running away in elopement causes actions to be taken that leads to the marriage of herself and her two sisters. The bad of the scandal and the good of the resulting marriages (these are the contradictions) were necessary to the outcome of one another (i.e. they complemented one another). The same in world events, within a society, within institutions, between people, and even within a person's life.

  • In a future time people will learn to utilize the spiritual Force so that there are fewer contradictions, and more harmony and Truth of outcome.

  • Society has gone through three ages of development. The physical, based on survival, which occurred from the dawn of man till ~ the Renaissance; the Vital age, marked by trade, commerce, interactions between people beginning ~ the Renaissance, and the Mental age that we have just begun to enter in the last 100 years or so, which is indicated by the development of democracy, the worth of the individual and individual empowerment, ever increasing organization, and the ascendance of the human mind in activities of the world

  • The Internet is a prime example of the mental age, with its more complex form of organization

  • The more complex and interrelated the systems of an organization is, the more development and evolution there is in society

  • Beyond the mental age of society is the spiritual age, indicated by harmony, unity, collaboration, peace, spiritual consecutiveness, unlimited infinite potential of accomplishment, success, and joy. There is also the utilization of the Divine Spirit, i.e. the Force (which can also be accessed even in the mental age) to create instant life response, accomplishment, and possibility in life.

  • Leaders rise to power as a result of a compelling rising tide in society. The individual represents an emerging element of society, and that is what pushes that person to the top as leader.

  • An individual can overcome limited perception in society, by not following the belief in his or her own work. Inevitability of recession, the fact that we can only grow 5%, inflation is inevitable, etc. are all examples of beliefs that we accept. These and others can be overcome by ignoring them in our actions, policies, strategies, etc. List 20 common assumptions, question them, and see which ones can be ignored in the road we take in business and work.

  • For a business to prosper infinitely and endlessly it should ride the tide of the changing needs of society. Any business that becomes aware of these trends, and develops goals and products/services in that area will rise to the very highest pinnacles of success. Microsoft once moving in that direction has abandoned it for self-aggrandizement. If it goes back to riding the wave of society's needs, it will become the largest company in history.

  • The low cannot rise without the high rising further. For example, the prosperity of the lower classes cannot rise unless there is a further rising of the higher classes. Also the high cannot rise further without the low rising considerably . That is the more prosperous parts of the world cannot rise to the next levels of prosperity unless those on the lower end rise a great deal. That is the situation in the current state of the world and its crisis.

    Another way of saying this is that the collective welfare of the world cannot usher into a new phase unless it is saturated at the current level. (E.g. In 1990s there was great economic boom. Yet many were left behind, including those in Africa and Middle East, from which despair, anguish and terror originate. Unless we correct the soil from which such terror grows, the world can't move fully to the next level of world prosperity. In the current times we have fallen back as a result of this phenomenon.) 

  • There is no limit to what we as a person or as a society can achieve. We are only limited by our own belief systems. "We become what we believe we can become." (Bhagavad-Gita). 

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS

See Resolution of Problems Through Higher Harmonies
Sri Aurobindo said that "all problems in life are problems of harmony." Most of the problems we have described are problems of harmony; in this case disequalibrium between nations and people of the earth. The problems of harmony as disequalibrium have manifest in the form of haves and have-nots, the organized and the disorganized, partial, local solutions at he expense of fuller global solutions, and reactive rather than thoughtful, to name a few. When we rise to these higher harmonies, the problems will easily be solved. Solutions are endlessly available by creating more harmony, more integration, greater opening to collaborative approaches. This idea that Sri Aurobindo propounds (all problems in life are problems of harmony) will be slowly accepted by the world, consciously or unconsciously. For example, the UN and the European Union are subconscious first step acknowledgements of this aspect of human evolution and destiny.


World Unity Emerging
We will come to understand in general that we are moving toward greater levels of world unity. We have barely scratched the surface of understanding this idea. The only unity is at a bare minimum political and an emerging economic. The social, emotional, cultural oneness of the world is for the future. 


All Problems in Life are Problems of Harmony
If we look across the spectrum of life and existence we can see that all problems can be solved by creating higher degrees of harmony. That is true for the individual, the society, the world, and the universe. 

We can view any situation where there is a problem and see how creating a greater degree of harmony between the parties involved can solve the problem. For example, when there is a vast reservoir of food in one part of the world and not in the other, then the problem is not of abundance, but of working out greater balance and harmonies between nations. 

If you examine any work, any field of endeavor, one can see that problems can be resolved by bringing about greater coordination, cooperation, and collaboration; by bringing differing values and attitudes into the same line among the participants. This is true of social entities, between people, even within the individual person. 

By bringing greater harmony between the different aspects of his or her being a problem can be solved. Such aspects include between the physical, vita/emotional, and mental part; or we can look at it as a harmony among one's attitudes, habits, and opinions, values, level of  organization, energy, and so forth. The ultimate harmonies are spiritual in nature. We call that Oneness.

-Harmony does not mean to compromise. It means to use a higher understanding to find a true reconciliation between the opposites we encounter, for all opposites are portions of a Oneness that seeks expression through the diverse play of their opposition. Constantly strive to find the widest and most encompassing harmony in all that you do.

(For more information on Sri Aurobindo's view of the organization of life, including issues of harmony and unity, click here.)

 

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Additional Information:

  • For more on the major Growth Online ideas on social growth and development, including the four stages of human development, click here.

  • To read an interview about how the Internet is an indicator of human evolution, click here.

  • To read the 1995 book Uncommon Opportunities online written by our sister organization the International Center for Peace and Food, which gives a series of recommendations for peace and equitable development in the world, as is supported by Michael Gorbachev and others, click here

    Among the recommendations are -- the development of a world army, the implementation of full employment around the world and the regard of gainful employment as a human right, the great importance of the development of Russia and East Europe in the wake of the end of the Cold War, the need to do everything to nurture the human potential of the human being, the importance of developing an insightful theory of social development from which all recommendations for change ensue, and many others.

  • To learn about social development by seeing how it operates in Jane Austin's Pride and Prejudice, click here.

  • To learn more about how a company can tie its growth to emerging forces in society, click here

  • To learn about how to make life respond (i.e. make the outer around you instantly or dramatically respond to your own inner movements), click here.

  • For more on the sage and seer Sri Aurobindo, click here.

 

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